Former Congressmen Share Thoughts on Legislating in Polarized Times

Former Congressmen Share Thoughts on Legislating in Polarized Times

Former Congressmen Trott and Payne discuss their experiences in Congress and insights on Congressional dysfunction.

(Congressmen Payne and Trott discuss before the event. | SOURCE: The Spectator)

“Congress is a different kind of entity, one that you're working always to build consensus [because] whenever you start out thinking ‘I'd like to achieve something in Congress,’ there needs to be 217 other people who want to achieve something similar in time,” remarked former Congressman L.F. Payne of Virginia during a panel in Lee Chapel, National Historic Monument, on March 17, 2025. 

Washington and Lee hosted former Congressmen Lewis F. Payne (D-VA) and Dave Trott (R-MI) as part of the Congress to Campus initiative, a program by the Association of Former Members of Congress.  

In his introduction, President Dudley described the organization as having the mission of “sending bipartisan teams to campuses around the country to educate students on service in the legislative branch and the benefits of healthy and civil disagreement.” “Civility is a core value here at W&L,” he went on to say, arguing that both the university and the organization share the value. 

The panel was moderated by Lucas Morel, the John K. Boardman Jr. Professor of Politics and Head of the Politics Department at W&L. Morel, who is serving on the United States Semiquincentennial Commission, described himself as a scholar on “the art of governing, especially in times of crisis,” despite not being “an expert on Congress.”

Professor Morel first asked the congressmen about common misperceptions surrounding congressional procedure. Congressman Payne discussed how, prior to Congress, he did not have political experience. Coming from his experience as a businessman, he stated “that being in Congress is not like being in business” because “top-down” leadership tactics do not work as they do in business; instead, “it’s all about consensus.” 

Congressman Trott echoed these same observations while adding that he was surprised to find out that committee work is “a waste of time” because members only use hearings to generate sound bites, something Trott himself admitted to being guilty of. Despite this, Trott argued that members of Congress are of  “a higher caliber” and “competent and more intelligent than you would expect.”

(Professor Morel (left), Congressman Payne (center), and Congressman Trott (right). | SOURCE: Author)

Morel then asked the Congressmen, “In what ways is Congress not as bad as it looks?” Payne answered that “Congress is actually full of people who are really hard-working” and that members generally “care about the country.” Payne argued that the institution “suffers because it has no advocates,” as individual Congressmen often run on how broken Congress is. 

Trott emphasized the difficulty of congressional voting, citing the internal dilemma Congressmembers have to wrestle with: “Are you there to vote your personal conscience, or are you there to represent the district?” 

Dr. Morel then asked the panelists about congressional traditions. Contextualizing his question by providing the example of President Trump, whom he deemed the “grand disruptor,” Morel used this example to ask whether Congress’s traditions have been disrupted recently. Trott stated that “there are traditions in Congress that are certainly followed and respected,” but “in recent years, almost all presidents have usurped the authority and powers of Congress.” 

Trott then commented on the current political situation, stating Congress is “doing a horrific job of checks and balances on President Trump,” who he deemed to be “fundamentally unfit to be president.”

He stressed that “Congress needs to step up and hold him in check,” but instead, they are “capitulating in all of Trump's missions.” Payne agreed with Trott’s assessment, adding that “the idea of Congress working well as a body, being able to compromise, to find solutions, being able to talk civilly to one another” has become unlikely. 

Morel followed by asking the panelists to explain why these norms were abandoned. Payne answered that the Republican takeover of the House in 1994, along with Newt Gingrich's subsequent speakership, caused an ideological change in congressional proceedings. Payne claimed that Republicans viewed their willingness to compromise as precluding them from congressional power for decades.

Trott blamed President Trump's rise for changing norms on his “branding skills,” which have “pulled a lot of Americans into believing in his message.” 

Morel then opened the floor to student questions. One question asked the congressmen about the proposal to eliminate the Department of Education and its implications for universities.

Payne, who serves on the Board of Visitors at the University of Virginia, answered that the proposal shows the “administration does not value education” and that universities will have a tough time finding new funding because of the changes to NIH grant distribution. Payne argued that America has the “greatest higher education system in the world,” which he believed had been put at risk by Trump’s actions.

Trott stated that while “the Department of Education has a number of programs that cannot and should not be eliminated,” he believed “the best government is closest to home.” He specifically advocated for “pushing and decentralizing [education] programs to the states” due to his belief in the Tenth Amendment and states’ rights. He believes that Trump’s fight against the Department of Education has been “haphazard and random,” amounting to a “revenge tour” designed to fire up his base.

When asked about individual members of Congress they admire, Payne complimented Virginia’s two United States senators, Mark Warner and Tim Kaine, while additionally applauding Senate Majority Leader John Thune.

Another question asked the panelists whether they believed Congress had delegated some of its power by giving extensive regulatory authority to executive agencies. Payne stated that “much of what presidents are now doing really were intended for Congress,” specifically criticizing President Trump. “The amount of power he is usurping … from Congress is unsettling,” Payne added. 

Trott agreed that “Congress takes some of the blame for the failure to assert the Article 1 powers” because of its inefficiencies in the budgeting process and appropriations bills. 

When asked about Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, which Trott described as a “terrible situation,” both panelists criticized the Trump administration’s approach. Trott argued that Trump’s public pressuring of Ukrainian President Zelenskyy “should have happened in private.” Payne claimed that Trump seems “to be switching sides in terms of our support for democracy” and that he should be “admiring and appreciating” Ukrainians but has been “chastising them and taking their resources.”

The final question posed to the Congressmen was what sources of hope they turn to in polarizing times. Payne discussed how America has historically faced tough times, saying that “given our democracy and given our success as a democracy, we'll get through this.” He then concluded his remarks by saying that what gives him the most hope is “the fact that there’s so many young people who are so bright and so dedicated to making this country work better, not necessarily as a Republican or a Democrat.”